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Sam Cooke — A Change is Gonna Come
Album: Ain't That Good News
Avg rating:
8.6

Your rating:
Total ratings: 3064









Released: 1964
Length: 3:08
Plays (last 30 days): 3
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I was born by the river in a little tent
Ohh and just like the river I've been running ev'r since
It's been a long time, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

It's been too hard living, but I'm afraid to die
'Cause I don't know what's up there, beyond the sky
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

I go to the movie and I go downtown
Somebody keep tellin' me don't hang around
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will

Then I go to my brother
And I say brother help me please
But he winds up knockin' me
Back down on my knees, ohh

There have been times that I thought I couldn't last for long
But now I think I'm able to carry on
It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change is gonna come, oh yes it will
Comments (212)add comment
 Stetsonman wrote:

bit of a horny fucker wasn't he?

Jerk

Posted 4 days ago by philbertr    [ Reply ]
If you can call a song, "majestic", I guess this is it. 

Any also maybe one by Woody Guthrie. 

Posted 1 week ago by idiot_wind    [ Reply ]
Why is that brilliance and tragedy so often go hand in hand? Grateful for the gift he gave us. 
Posted 1 month ago by surfool    [ Reply ]
 cc_rider wrote:
Malford used to walk everywhere back in the 80's. You'd see him all over town, walking. Seen him perform many times, his voice has always been something special. I might have to pick up that old CD just because.
c.
Replying to my old post!
I saw Malford perform recently, at the Elgin Music Festival. He was born in Elgin, lives in Taylor now. He's 65 and his voice isn't what it was, but Malford is something special. So nice to see him perform again, and he's such a wonderful gentleman.
c.

Posted 4 months ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
He was brave to perform this on live TV
Posted 4 months ago by philbertr    [ Reply ]
Inexpressibly beautiful.  The voice, the song, the arrangement - all perfect.  If ever there's a 10, this is surely it.
Posted 10 months ago by Edweirdo    [ Reply ]
The mother of all seques- Vivaldi—> Sam Cooke. Bravo RP. 
Posted 10 months ago by pbouchar    [ Reply ]
 joejennings wrote:


Cool!  How about some info about where to find this (500 songs).  Thank You!


A History of Rock and Roll in 500 Songs

Since William is so good at including many 'historical' songs, you may find this podcast as a great companion to Radio Paradise. 
Posted 10 months ago by stevesaw    [ Reply ]
My parents introduced me to Cooke's music. Those are fond memories. His voice is timeless 
Posted 10 months ago by nelsonha    [ Reply ]
 stevesaw wrote:

I've been listening to A History of Rock and Roll in 500 Songs. I'm at around 1957 now and there was an episode on Sam Cooke. What a natural talent and fantastic voice even at the start of his career. Shame it was cut short.



Cool!  How about some info about where to find this (500 songs).  Thank You!
Posted 11 months ago by joejennings    [ Reply ]
I've been listening to A History of Rock and Roll in 500 Songs. I'm at around 1957 now and there was an episode on Sam Cooke. What a natural talent and fantastic voice even at the start of his career. Shame it was cut short.
Posted 1 year ago by stevesaw    [ Reply ]
 forthbrdge wrote:

Another BillG homerun segues - 

Vivaldi's Concerto Op 4 No 1: III Allegro

to 

Sam Cooke's A Change is Gonna Come 

perfect


Same exact segue today.  Perfection. 
Posted 1 year ago by tarbinator    [ Reply ]
Had to stop what I was doing at work and just sit and listen and think
Posted 1 year ago by Aud    [ Reply ]
If Sam Cooke were alive to see two black legislators expelled from the  Tennessee House of Representatives for protesting gun violence, while a protesting white legislator was spared that fate, I do not think he would be able to stop vomiting.

Great job, Tennessee Republicans on your march toward apartheid!
Posted 1 year ago by Ipse_Dixit    [ Reply ]
"Gives me chills" is a cliche. But it's literal for this one.
Posted 1 year ago by ShockwaveRider    [ Reply ]
dang.
Posted 1 year ago by jelgator    [ Reply ]
jewel
Posted 2 years ago by sunny_day    [ Reply ]
Excellent, beautiful voice, beautiful lyrics, 
Posted 2 years ago by DOT_SPINK    [ Reply ]
 forthbrdge wrote:

Another BillG homerun segues - 

Vivaldi's Concerto Op 4 No 1: III Allegro

to 

Sam Cooke's A Change is Gonna Come 

perfect






I thought you had just written this, because the exact same thing just happened! I guess they have certain playlists that they repeat.
Posted 2 years ago by sarah.roy.4    [ Reply ]
Any Sam Cooke song is an automatic 10
Posted 2 years ago by mccool    [ Reply ]
 DrLex wrote:

‘Godlike’ indeed is the appropriate rating for this song.

I recently de-rated a bunch of my 10s. Not to take anything away from those artists, but to honor the handful of songs like this one.
c.

Posted 2 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
 DrLex wrote:

‘Godlike’ indeed is the appropriate rating for this song.



I Agree!!
Posted 2 years ago by joejennings    [ Reply ]
‘Godlike’ indeed is the appropriate rating for this song.
Posted 2 years ago by DrLex    [ Reply ]
 Ndugu wrote:

This is a great example of an artist taking control of his career. Cooke heard Dylan's "Blowin' In The Wind," and wanted to make that kind of statement. Not many guys can do this, but he wrote A Change Is Gonna Come and made a drastic shift away from the lighter songs he was doing to that point.



Otis Redding did it too.  Shame we lost him right after.
Posted 2 years ago by GChevy410    [ Reply ]
Still waiting, still waiting... and it looks like the changes we're getting just now are two or three steps backwards.  

But this song stands along with Nina Simone's "Backlash Blues" and several others as bright rays of hope for the good change that may come -- and that we shall overcome, someday.
Posted 2 years ago by QuantumShaman    [ Reply ]
hope so. 
with the soul
Posted 2 years ago by luisaa72    [ Reply ]
Words do not express how good I think song is.
If I had a personal top ten list - my listening pleasure goes back to mid-midcentury - this one would qualify.
Posted 2 years ago by hialtidude    [ Reply ]
Absolutely wholesome. Great Main Mix this morning - afternoon
Posted 2 years ago by BlackDog1121    [ Reply ]
Outstanding mix wow thanks

Posted 2 years ago by Batmite    [ Reply ]
And here we are, working extra hours in the office....
Posted 2 years ago by Bleyfusz    [ Reply ]
Such an extraordinary song with that full orchestra. That the following verse was cut from radio play when the song first came out for fear that it would cause racial unrest is a sad commentary on our past. RIP, Sam. 

I go to the movie
And I go downtown
Somebody keep telling me
Don't hang around
Posted 2 years ago by septimuswarren    [ Reply ]
 ImaOldman wrote:



Check out the film "One Night in Miami", it tells a fictionalized story about Sam's changing of style and social activism.


Also recommend the doc (on Netflix) "the Two Killings of Sam Cooke".  So much more than a brilliant voice ; he was an amazing songwriter, a civil rights and racial equality advocate, an entrepreneur, provided support and advocacy for Black musicians and music, even stood up to the Mafia.  A remarkable individual, taken by a tragic (and highly suspicious) death.
Posted 2 years ago by Chwkbud    [ Reply ]
 ImaOldman wrote:



Check out the film "One Night in Miami", it tells a fictionalized story about Sam's changing of style and social activism.



Great film
Posted 2 years ago by radioparadise38    [ Reply ]
 jarad.petroske176 wrote:

Holy Smokes this is amazing. Where has this song been all my life?


I grew up listening to this on AM radio.
Posted 2 years ago by westslope    [ Reply ]
GREAT!!! ICONIC!!!
Posted 2 years ago by joejennings    [ Reply ]
Holy Smokes this is amazing. Where has this song been all my life?
Posted 3 years ago by jarad.petroske176    [ Reply ]
 dmiley wrote:


OMG!? and it got 4 upvotes as of this posting. Racist comment FTL! Not appropriate anywhere.  

Now 6 upvotes including mine.
Posted 3 years ago by westslope    [ Reply ]
 jmsmy wrote:

Yeah - being white  - I really don't know what's wrong with some white people -  but a change will come AGAIN.



OMG!? and it got 4 upvotes as of this posting. Racist comment FTL! Not appropriate anywhere.  
Posted 3 years ago by dmiley    [ Reply ]
 Stetsonman wrote:

bit of a horny fucker wasn't he?



So that's how you sum up a life like his? Odd
Posted 3 years ago by bam23    [ Reply ]
bit of a horny fucker wasn't he?
Posted 3 years ago by Stetsonman    [ Reply ]
 forthbrdge wrote:

Another BillG homerun segues - 

Vivaldi's Concerto Op 4 No 1: III Allegro

to 

Sam Cooke's A Change is Gonna Come 

perfect



And, just like Bill, he changed it up a bit.
Posted 3 years ago by nomnol    [ Reply ]
What an amazing set today !  
Thanks RP 
Posted 3 years ago by klhoste    [ Reply ]
I need to change many of my 10s to 9s, to honor this song - and the man.
c.
Posted 3 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
Yeah - being white  - I really don't know what's wrong with some white people -  but a change will come AGAIN.
Posted 3 years ago by jmsmy    [ Reply ]
 konz wrote:



Also Malford Milligan's (Storyville) version from the album Bluest Eyes. 
https://youtu.be/8Gwm8mH_PIE
Malford used to walk everywhere back in the 80's. You'd see him all over town, walking. Seen him perform many times, his voice has always been something special. I might have to pick up that old CD just because.
c.

Posted 3 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
 Ndugu wrote:

This is a great example of an artist taking control of his career. Cooke heard Dylan's "Blowin' In The Wind," and wanted to make that kind of statement. Not many guys can do this, but he wrote A Change Is Gonna Come and made a drastic shift away from the lighter songs he was doing to that point.




Check out the film "One Night in Miami", it tells a fictionalized story about Sam's changing of style and social activism.
Posted 3 years ago by ImaOldman    [ Reply ]
Another BillG homerun segues - 

Vivaldi's Concerto Op 4 No 1: III Allegro

to 

Sam Cooke's A Change is Gonna Come 

perfect
Posted 3 years ago by forthbrdge    [ Reply ]
 Daveteauk wrote:
 
 Graet voice, but check out the version by Taj Mahal - bliss.




Also Malford Milligan's (Storyville) version from the album Bluest Eyes. 
https://youtu.be/8Gwm8mH_PIE
Posted 3 years ago by konz    [ Reply ]
So apropos for today 1/8/21.
It's been a week!
Posted 3 years ago by tlbritton    [ Reply ]
 Ndugu wrote:
This is a great example of an artist taking control of his career. Cooke heard Dylan's "Blowin' In The Wind," and wanted to make that kind of statement. Not many guys can do this, but he wrote A Change Is Gonna Come and made a drastic shift away from the lighter songs he was doing to that point.

 
Bob's version of this song is quite interesting indeed.  I can't post the link on RP, but if you search it on youtube it will pull it up.    Great live version from 2004.
Posted 3 years ago by peterlawmusic    [ Reply ]
One of my favorite of all times songs.  This one goes right to the center of my soul, especially sung by Sam Cooke.  
Posted 4 years ago by nrg    [ Reply ]
Chills. Every. Time.
c.

edit: A little googling turned up a great article from The New Yorker circa 2015, describing the influences that built this song. He was inspired by Dylan's 'Blowin' In The Wind', for starters, but made the song much more personal, and drew from various sources, including the musical 'Showboat'. Watch Paul Robeson sing 'Ol' Man River', the influence is obvious - and powerful.
c.
Posted 4 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
 Rockit9 wrote:
What a voice.
 
Indeed and good looking too...,
Posted 4 years ago by VH1    [ Reply ]
 Daveteauk wrote:
 Rockit9 wrote:
What a voice.
 Graet voice, but check out the version by Taj Mahal - bliss.

 
Terence Trent D'arby did an amazing version too. Captured the anguish of the struggle with an amazing voice. As far as I know it is only available on the soundtrack of a TV mini-series 'The Promised Land' circa 1995. 
c.
Posted 4 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
 Rockit9 wrote:
What a voice.
 Graet voice, but check out the version by Taj Mahal - bliss.

Posted 4 years ago by Daveteauk    [ Reply ]
Pure, true, intense...
Posted 4 years ago by BamaBroad    [ Reply ]
"A change is gonna come, ain't that good news"?
Posted 5 years ago by macadavy    [ Reply ]
What a voice.
Posted 6 years ago by Rockit9    [ Reply ]
10+
Posted 6 years ago by quigui    [ Reply ]
 marklaw wrote:
Change will come.  It's slow, it's painful, but right and morality will out.  #Resist

 
Race relations went backwards 30 years with Mr Hope and Change.  You maybe should have resisted that...
Posted 7 years ago by maxjboxer    [ Reply ]
Change will come.  It's slow, it's painful, but right and morality will out.  #Resist
Posted 7 years ago by marklaw    [ Reply ]
A truly beautiful piece of music!  Thank you RP
Posted 7 years ago by ai63    [ Reply ]
PSD from the post TH David Byrne to this. Like going from leftovers to the full Christmas dinner.  
Posted 7 years ago by zurcronium    [ Reply ]
 Cynaera wrote:
His voice gives me chills - so pure and true. I love this song.

 
yes

yes
Posted 7 years ago by hayduke2    [ Reply ]
Going up, 9 > 10  that is an awesome piece.
Posted 8 years ago by Johnaus    [ Reply ]
An absolute classic. 
Posted 8 years ago by GeorgeMWoods    [ Reply ]
 westslope wrote:
Sweet.

So for the benefit of those of us who require mental crutches to see forward, in what category does this song fall?  R&B?  Soul?   

 
Cooke is regarded as The Father Of Soul Music, for example his first hit "You Send Me" in 1957 you can hear how he sweetened up the R&B and Do-Wop of the '50's that started Soul Music, all the singers that followed Cooke in the 1960's credit him as inspiration and an idol.
To answer your question, if I had to hang a label on it I'd say Soul Music but that is what my ears hear.
This song "A Change Is Gonna Come" I get a little jazzy and Gospel feel to it but Cooke put his signature on it and made it soulful
Posted 8 years ago by Skydog    [ Reply ]
Sweet.

So for the benefit of those of us who require mental crutches to see forward, in what category does this song fall?  R&B?  Soul?   
Posted 8 years ago by westslope    [ Reply ]
you'd think with an 8.8 rating RP would be playing tons of Sam Cooke
Posted 8 years ago by Skydog    [ Reply ]

Pure.

Freakin'.

Gold.

 


Posted 8 years ago by Shmelo    [ Reply ]
 mfcrowe wrote:
Check out the his album Live at the Harlem Square Club, 1963. It is awesome and so different from his pop recordings. This guy could rock. King Curtis is unbelievable in the sax and if you haven't heard his music, you should. In fact Bill, I am surprised that he isn't played on RP.

Check out King Curtis -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI8d36w_ijw  

 A terrific version of Twisting the Night Away on that album

 


Posted 8 years ago by jim1964    [ Reply ]
A firm 9. The only reason I can't give it a 10 is because I have to leave room for Aaron Neville's rendition, which is even better. Chilling.
Posted 8 years ago by WhiteWater    [ Reply ]
I want an 11 for this.
Posted 9 years ago by michaelc    [ Reply ]
Been a long time since I heard this. Gave me chills. His phrasing is phenomenal.
Posted 10 years ago by dtallerico    [ Reply ]
 Cynaera wrote:
His voice gives me chills - so pure and true. I love this song.

 
Absolutely.
Posted 10 years ago by Webfoot    [ Reply ]
Check out the his album Live at the Harlem Square Club, 1963. It is awesome and so different from his pop recordings. This guy could rock. King Curtis is unbelievable in the sax and if you haven't heard his music, you should. In fact Bill, I am surprised that he isn't played on RP.

Check out King Curtis -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI8d36w_ijw  

 
Posted 10 years ago by mfcrowe    [ Reply ]
Sublime
Posted 10 years ago by tfioreze    [ Reply ]
 ottovonb wrote:
There's never been a better singing voice on this planet and I doubt there ever will be.
Good, great as he is....Mr. Sam Cooke will have to chat with Rev  Al Green.


Posted 10 years ago by ScottN    [ Reply ]
 ottovonb wrote:
There's never been a better singing voice on this planet and I doubt there ever will be.

  Objectively-speaking, there are probably 'better' voices. But there is something about his voice that just crushes it, something very rare indeed. Marvin Gaye had it. Patsy Cline had it. Something in their voices conveys intense emotions. I do not disagree with your statement though: Mr. Cooke's voice is without equal.


Posted 10 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
{#Sunny}
Posted 10 years ago by oldfart48    [ Reply ]
needs some Bonzo, Peart or Moon on drums.{#Mrgreen}. 
Posted 10 years ago by moodfood    [ Reply ]
now there is a 10 if ever I heard one!
Posted 10 years ago by ploba    [ Reply ]
There's never been a better singing voice on this planet and I doubt there ever will be.
Posted 10 years ago by ottovonb    [ Reply ]
{#Heartkiss} G O D L I K E + + +
Posted 10 years ago by Peter_Bradshaw    [ Reply ]
and it flat do not get better than this, EVER, NO WAY, NO HOW..........
Posted 10 years ago by oldfart48    [ Reply ]
 siloco wrote:
A true classic.

Terence Trent D'arby did a great version in the nineties, which is well worth checking out...
 
I have that version too, the only source I ever found was a PBS production called 'The Promised Land'.

 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124081/
Posted 11 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
 yofitofu wrote:
Seems like a song about Khadaffi - "I was born in a little tent.....a change is gonna come"?

 

and look what happened to him..........................
Posted 11 years ago by prophetzarquon    [ Reply ]
SHOT  to death in a sleazy motel room, his wallet was never found, the cops didn't care, hooker and murdering pimp walked away. American justice.
Posted 11 years ago by oldfart48    [ Reply ]
50 years old and still riveting.
Posted 11 years ago by TerryS    [ Reply ]
 Hinkamp wrote:
you should follow this with a moment of silence because anything else sort of spoils the mood. "Porcupine Trees"!?!
 
I was just thinking this is an awfully hard song to immediately follow with another song. Tracy Chapman's Crossroads is on now. Decent tune but after Sam Cooke? Silence is golden. Shame he passed away so soon. 
Posted 11 years ago by phlattop    [ Reply ]
 Toke wrote:


well said ... its just a beautiful song sung from the soul and heart.

 
This just reminds me of the beauty of RP. I listen to "Music Choice" on Comcast (at another place not set up like home) cause its easier than trying to stream the web and the 60s music features lots of Cooke, but it is not the depth that I ALWAYS get here. I'm just glad someone(s) is paying attention!
Posted 11 years ago by SanFranGayMan    [ Reply ]
The strings are saccharine, but the singing is righteous. 8.
Posted 11 years ago by jbunniii    [ Reply ]
 atthetone wrote:
black soul, motown....call it what you will. sweet it is, sweet it is..
 

well said ... its just a beautiful song sung from the soul and heart.
Posted 11 years ago by Toke    [ Reply ]
black soul, motown....call it what you will. sweet it is, sweet it is..
Posted 11 years ago by atthetone    [ Reply ]
Not sure how accurate this story is, but I thought I heard an interview about the writing of this song. Supposedly he wrote it in the car on the way to a gig: they needed another song for their set list and wanted something gospel-sounding but not TOO gospel-sounding. I don't know if there's really such a thing as divine inspiration, but this song would be pretty good proof.

Edit: Wiki set me straight. Written in his tour bus after visiting with demonstrators. Doesn't change the quality of the song though.
Posted 12 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
Seamless and true.
Posted 12 years ago by ziakut    [ Reply ]
Its all just gospel to me.
Posted 12 years ago by DD gypsyman    [ Reply ]
  This is in my top 5 of all time. It might just be number 1
Posted 12 years ago by neuticle    [ Reply ]
 ottovonb wrote:
Some voices - very few - are so utterly amazing it almost doesn't matter what they sing, it's stunning. That's Sam. Fortunately he sang plenty of great songs. But his voice is so extraordinary it's actually difficult to assess the song itself. What an amazing gift to be able to bring joy to so many people so long after you've passed from this earth.
 
Right on...
Posted 12 years ago by neuticle    [ Reply ]
Some voices - very few - are so utterly amazing it almost doesn't matter what they sing, it's stunning. That's Sam. Fortunately he sang plenty of great songs. But his voice is so extraordinary it's actually difficult to assess the song itself. What an amazing gift to be able to bring joy to so many people so long after you've passed from this earth.
Posted 12 years ago by ottovonb    [ Reply ]
perfect.
Posted 12 years ago by zitherica    [ Reply ]
 gosvimmink wrote:
sam cooke is perfection
 
yes.
Posted 12 years ago by lily34    [ Reply ]
sam cooke is perfection
Posted 12 years ago by gosvimmink    [ Reply ]
i think it's truly difficult to comprehend or figure out exactly what a huge and profound influence he, otis redding and smokey robinson were on the early '60's music scene in america.  the beatles, of course, were obliterating everything north, east, south and west at the very same time but those three did what they did best....black american soul, the very root of rock n' roll.  perhaps, if i may be so bold as to add, saving the american pop music at the same time.  there was, in fact, no real american answer for the beatles.  they sprang from the roots of the fifties (buddy holly, little richard, everly bros. etc) but those three were all american originals.  
viva sam  otis and smokey
Posted 12 years ago by gjr    [ Reply ]
And a second believe it or not, Joshua Ledett does magic with this on American Idol
Posted 12 years ago by dingleberry    [ Reply ]
Oh, Lord, what a voice.
Posted 12 years ago by WonderLizard    [ Reply ]
10, 10, 10, 10. I should go back and change all my other 10s to 9s. It just doesn't get any better.

Believe it or not, Terence Trent d'Arby did a wonderful cover of this for a PBS (?) special called 'The Promised Land'. Nothing can top Sam Cooke of course, but that version is very, very good.
Posted 12 years ago by cc_rider    [ Reply ]
So smooth and sweet, brother bring it! {#Mrgreen}
Posted 12 years ago by godspeed    [ Reply ]
Hmm, this song does not appear to be on this album
Posted 12 years ago by MJMJ    [ Reply ]
aaahhhhhhhhh......life is good; thank you RP!!! 
Posted 12 years ago by sheetsy    [ Reply ]
Next time you are at a wedding, ask the band to play anything from Sam Cooke.  You'll get an admiring glance from the band and the dance floor will be packed in seconds.  Never fails.  People know the music, but not the Man's name.  Amazing music.

Posted 13 years ago by amoreena    [ Reply ]
His voice gives me chills - so pure and true. I love this song.
Posted 13 years ago by Cynaera    [ Reply ]

Wow. This song just gave me chills. I can't remember the last time that happened.


Posted 13 years ago by SinisterDexter    [ Reply ]
Seems like a song about Khadaffi - "I was born in a little tent.....a change is gonna come"?
Posted 13 years ago by yofitofu    [ Reply ]
This is a great example of an artist taking control of his career. Cooke heard Dylan's "Blowin' In The Wind," and wanted to make that kind of statement. Not many guys can do this, but he wrote A Change Is Gonna Come and made a drastic shift away from the lighter songs he was doing to that point.

Posted 15 years ago by Ndugu    [ Reply ]
i must admit that the first rendition of this song i got to hear, and wholeheartedly fell in love with was the baby huey cover version of this track, it would be great to hear it...although it clocks at some 9 minutes ;)
Posted 17 years ago by Delboy77    [ Reply ]
Could be sacrlege to say, but I was reading an interview with Steve Perry of Journey, and he cites Sam Cooke as a favourite. And then I listened to Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin'and heard it right away. Sam's influence even spread into 1970s AOR! Who would have thunk it? ThePoose wrote:
And how about Marvin, Otis and Rev. Al? Sad that legal wrangling kept this recording from being released to all humanity until the latest millennium. Credit Bob's Blowin' in the Wind for Sam's inspiration to write this.
Posted 17 years ago by graemea    [ Reply ]
What an amazing piece of music. One of the few that has rightly earned a rating of 10.
Posted 17 years ago by drife    [ Reply ]
damn... 9 -> 10
Posted 17 years ago by Frater_Kork    [ Reply ]
damn, damn sad ... a change has not come.
Posted 17 years ago by Hinkamp    [ Reply ]